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For part two:    • Michael Levin | Bernardo Kastrup #2 -...  

This was an excerpt from a 5-week discussion series with Bernardo Kastrup & Michael Levin

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CONTENT

0:00 Introduction
1:40 What Bernardo appreciates in Michaels work
2:50 What Michael appreciates in Bernardo’s work.
3:55 How to tell what is conscious
10:00 Every cell does what neurons do: if brains produce consciousness maybe all cells do
12:00 A framework for types of mind
14:40 The continuum of agency: based on prediction and efficacious interaction
19:27 Bernardo’s: the boundaries of self
24:09 Bernardo: conscious computers are unlikely: things only exist conceptually
29:00 Michael: Goal seeking the best measure of consciousness: since there is no obvious place mechanical chemistry becomes cognitive life, and all life is a collection of nested selves
36:26 Bernardo: Individuality is epiphenomenal and can explain laboratory division of life
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LIFE VS IMITATIONS

39:54 Bernardo: Distinguish between what is natural and what is an imitation (a mannequin)
A Mannequin looks like a human because it is designed to look like one, but we can’t draw more correlations based on that. AI might seek certain goals because it was designed to by its creators, but equally we can’t draw further conclusions based on that.
42:13 Michael: gears and cogs could make life
46:00 Michael: Metabolism is a version of autopoiesis; self construction and the need to battle for energy
48:00 Agency must be determined by perturbative experiments, not casual observation.
50:58 Life identified by goal seeking behaviour
55:26 Bernardo praises the paradigm shift Michael introduces in recognising agents in nature
Michael recognises the alternative health community as having this paradigm without the mechanism. Bioelectrical networks the glue collections of cells.
1:00 Hypnosis/therapy may be mechanisms to intervene at higher order levels.
1:07:00 Recap of criteria for consciousness
1:13:00 Moral/Ethical implications of Michael’s work
1:19:00 Recognising higher order agents in human society
Michael is not sure if bioelectricity can be extrapolated to human society

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