First 10:00 — On Bernardo’s commitment to truth and how materialism got underneath his skin

12:00 — I introduce myself and ask Bernardo to speak to what drives and alleviates mental anguish and neurosis .

18:00 — A brief reference to Sigmund Freud and Friedrich Nietzsche.

24:00 — I introduce my main concern regarding his work — a psychology without a psyche .

32:00 — Bernardo sees the dangers of using language such as “there is no personal self”.

38:00 — How does he square his view that the illusory nature of the personal self and Carl Jung’s emphasis on the importance of individuating, becoming one’s own person.

45:00 — Volition, freedom, autonomy — “The case of Jane”.

48:00 — The slave and the master is within Jane .

51:00 — Is the witness the Master?

55:00 - What nature wants through us = what we want in our hearts of hearts — natural self vs adaptive self.

56:00 — Needs for safety not necessarily related to subscribing to a narrative .

1:00:00 — Bernardo’s thoughts of suicide, invaluable mentoring, and honoring what we want in our hearts of hearts (“what nature wants through you”).

1:05:00 — Affection for Bernardo. The issue of vantage point, surrender vs. will power .

1:06:0 — A personal tragedy for Bernardo .

1:08:00 - Finally a meeting of the minds, where our two ontologies appear to overlap, and the subject of impotence versus power.

1:10:00 —A nod to Iain McGilchrist.

1:11:00 —When the adaptive self (defense mechanisms) rules over the natural self, we are crippled and miserable.

1:13: 00—Volitional side of who we are needs to be acknowledged as real, not an empty process .

1:15:00 — Freedom of the slave concept — has impulse control but does not try to repress our true emotions and desires.

1:16:00 — Let’s not conceptualize the “ego” as apart from the experiencing Subject .

1:17:00 — Even without narratives there is individuality.

1:22:00 — The possibility of personal memories and a form of ego consciousness surviving death .

1:24:00— Bernardo reiterates that he never meant to try to take the “psyche out of psychology.”

1:25:00 — All narratives or attempts to define what we are miss the mark.

1:27:00 — Living fully is the best way to shed false narratives, an effort to fight them furthers neurosis .

1:28:00 — The instinct-wise man in Brazil .

1:35:00 — We both have a sense of being culturally homeless .

1:37:00 — Approaching sociology: tribalism, collectivist cultures, individualistic cultures, and the price of non-conformity .

1:42:00 — More on Latin culture, my fiancé, and a mind-blowing nuance.

1:47:00 — A scrapper, and what makes a person reliable .

1:52:00 — That which is seeing through my eyes, deliberating, and responding — one field of subjectivity taking different points of view through each of us.

1:53:00 — What is the reference point that allows us to determine that life is bizarre? The question Bernardo has feared for many years.

1:58:00 — My version of Bernardo’s experience .

1:59:00 - Bernardo’s childhood “fall from Grace”.

2:00:00 - The ontological implication of Bernardo’s experience: Perceptions and discernment without language-based concepts .

2:07:00 — Idealism and Buddhism .

2:12:00 — Having been confronted with the contradiction between a selfless view and the view of the changeless witness, Bernardo decides to speak about something he has only mentioned once before, something he says he cannot defend “on rational and empirical grounds.” Bernardo: “Nothing is going on.”

2:20:00 — My rebuttal and Bernardo’s sympathetic response to my rebuttal .

2:28:00 — Bernardo speaks of “nothingness that is pregnant with everything.”

2:31:00 — Bernardo says, “I can see it in your eyes that I failed to trick you.”

2:32:00 — How we conceptualize a spiritual experience matters and can be dangerous .

2:34:00— Giving Bernardo credit for being so experience-near .

2:43:00 — Rage against the nerds .

2:50:00 — Philosophizing that shuts us down versus philosophizing from the heart.

3:06:00 — Politics and more sociology, shared distaste for post-modernism/post-structuralism.